Was that racism?

Question

In WW2, my Grandpa volunteered for 22 seperate suicide missions, and came back from them all. He saved his squad during the battle of the bulge by killing the crew of a German tank by tricking the Germans to raise the hatch, then dropping a grenade into the tank. My Grandpa killed a German officer with his M1 Garand from 800 yards with an open sight, and many other heroic acts. You'd think that kind of performance in battle would get you a Silver Star, wouldn't you? Well, it didn't. He got a Bronze Star. Here's the thing. My Grandpa was 3/4 Cherokee Indian. I believe that he wasn't given the Silver Star because of his race. He deserved better than that. I mean, he lost a lot during the war. He lost friends and family, not to mention 1 1/2 lungs. If you were in charge back then, wouldn't you have given him a Silver Star? Or A Medal of Honor?

Answer 1

Probably remember in the 40s and even in recently the Originals, were treated like a sub-species and weren't allowed to drink or be allowed in certain places. As a black person, I've seen this out West and in the South and while in the Army. I remember as a kid my family couldn't get a motel in northern Idaho anywhere so we drove to Montana after we left Canada. Also in my second unit in Utah, I got death threats nailed to my door, dip spit on my white car, lice infested linen regiven to me on linen turn-in Tuesdays, and got called niga behind my back every day. I was the only black dude in the platoon and one of three in the company and one of 12 n the Batalion. I couldn't get promoted until I threaten to go to Congress or call Jesse Jackson (who I can't stand). I was a young Ranger and had proved myself at the unit, but I wasn't good enough to a few. I finally knocked out one of my antagonists and my Hawaiian 1SG (he was one of the 4 contractors who was killed in 2004 in Fallujah and hung on the brigde. RIP) declared Jim Crow was over when he found out what was going on. Thing was this was my 2nd unit so I knew the Army wasn't like this and I bear no bitterness toward white people.



It is funny to see people who are prejudice get tan these dark azz tans but I can't date their daughters....lol

Answer 2

Okay, you're not going to like this. I have a few doubts about your grandfather's stories. Unlike Hollywood soldiers don't get "suicide missions". If that was the term he used then he was exaggerating probably. Still many soldiers (white, black, asian, and hispanic) did heroic things and never got any recognition much less a Bronze Star. Killing a soldier at 800 yards is not heroic but it is excellent marksmanship.



Like everyone else reading this I don't know if racism cost you grandfather recognition. It is very possible, but look at Ira Hayes. He was a full-blooded Indian (don't ask which tribe) that was one of the men that raised the flag at Iwo Jima.



I have read of one account of three men rolling their 37 mm anti-tank gun throught the forrests of Belgium by hand in the Battle of the Bulge. They had no jeep to pull it. They came upon a bridge being wired by engineers for demolition but could see a German armored column approaching a mile away. They positioned their gun and started a duel with the lead tank. They knocked out a track and demobilized the tank which blocked the road. They moved their gun to the next tank and this allowed the engineers to blow the bridge. The three men were killed by the German armor when their gun took a direct hit. The engineering officer reported this action but no one knew the names of the three men and so they were never honored for their sacrifice.



Uncommon valor was common in those days.



If witnesses can be found it is possible to upgrade the decoration but it may take years.

Answer 3

22 suicide missions that he came back from? don't seem to suicidal to me. define suicide missions. killing a German officer at 800 yards is a very lucky shot if it even happened. "the Garand had a maximum effective range of 500 yards (457 m), with the capability of inflicting a casualty with armor-piercing ammunition well beyond 880 yards (approx. 800 m)". how do you trick a German tank crew into raising the hatch to drop a grenade into the interior? what unit did your Grandfather serve in? while I'm not saying these things are not true i do have plenty of doubt.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt however and say that if indeed it happened your Grandpa is in company with 10's of thousands of fellow soldiers who preformed heroic acts that went unrecognized for many different reasons.

Answer 4

Unfortuatly whether a soldier is given an award or not is based upon how his Commander feels about him. There are going to be people on here who say I am wrong and that the if you earn a medal in the Army the Army gives it to you. But that is not always true. Maybe your Grandfathers Commanding Officer was racist against Native Americans or maybe he just did not like him for other personal reasons. Maybe the other members of your Granfather's squad who witnessed his acts of bravery did not survive to tell his story or they just did not bother to report what he did. I think the Tank incident alone would be worth a Silver Star. You could se if you can get a copy of his Military records and have them reviewed by the Department of the Army. Other Veterans have been given awards decades after the war has ended.

Answer 5

more than likely it was but good luck trying to prove it. the way the army handed out medals back then is a whole lot different than they way they do now. to show how stupid their policy was this, the army actually came out and told the commanders that ONLY two medals of honor would be awarded per division for the normandy campaign. with all the divisions participating in the fight, you'd think that there were several instances of heroism that would warrant a medal of honor but they couldn't get it due to this policy. several silver and bronze stars were handed out because these individuals couldn't get the moh or the dsc. so with all this in mind, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that he couldn't be awarded the appropriate citation due to the army's insane policies. oh and one more thing, if your grandfather is still with us, tell him i said thank you for his service.

Answer 6

No I don't believe it was racism. Because there have been 24 Native Americans to earn the Medal of Honor.



I salute your Grandfather for his service, and regret that he may not have received his due. If you can provide documentation of these acts, it is possible to get his awards upgraded.

Answer 7

Without reading the specific citations in question, there's no way to tell.



Be aware that there were many, many, MANY heroic actions that went unnoticed, or were insufficiently documented to garner the recognition they truly deserved. Not nice, true, but real. When they say that "uncommon courage was a common virtue," they meant it. Unfortunately, when that many men are doing heroic things, many are going to simply be overlooked.

Answer 8

First off I find the Old Drop a Frag down the hatch of a Tiger Tank(and G.I.'s claimed all enemy tanks were Tigers) to be Mythological in nature. How did he trick them, wander up and say "Candygram"?



22"Suicide" Missions? I call BS on that as well. Maybe 22 Patrols with other men from the unit, but I find it hard to believe he was sent alone.



Shooting a Garand isnt heroic, Many Soldiers of all races have done it with similar results.



Finally, I'm not convinced Racism towards Indians was totally prevalent, then why did these Men get the Medal of Honor:



Lt. Van T. Barfoot- Choctaw



Lt. Ernest Childers- Creek



Cdr. Ernest Edwins



Lt. Jack Montgomery- Cherokee



Pvt. John Reese jr.



In addition, these native Americans:



Raymond Harvey. Captain Harvey, a Chickasaw, was commanding officer of Co. C, 17th Infantry, 7th Infantry Division during the Korean War. When Harvey's company as pinned down by automatic weapons fire from several well-entrenched emplacements, he braved bullets and grenades to advance to the first North Korean machine gun nest and killed its crew with grenades. Rushing to the edge of the next emplacement, he killed its crew with carbine fire. Captain Harvey then moved the 1st Platoon forward, but it was again stopped by automatic weapons. Disregarding the hail of fire, he charged and destroyed a third emplacement. Miraculously Harvey continued to lead the assult through the intense crossfire. After spotting a well-camouflaged enemy pillbox, he moved close enough to sweep the emplacmeent with carbine fire and throw grenades through the openings killing its five occupants. Though wounded and in agonizing pain, he ordered his company forward and continued to direct the attack on the remaining hostile positions. Harvey refused evalucation until assured that the mission would be accomplished.



William Stewart. Sergeant First Class Stewart, a Crow, was wounded during the battle for Christmas Hill (Korea) and also saw action with the 45th Infantry Division.



Jerome Adams. Private First Class Adams, a Devil's Lake Sioux, served with the Army's 2nd Infantry Divsion in Korea and was evacuted after receiving gunshot wounds in th back, chest and arms and also shrapnel wounds in both legs.



Mitchell Red Cloud Jr. A Winnebago from Wisconsin, and a Corporal in Company E., 19th Infantry Regiment in Korea. On 5 November 1950, Red Cloud was on a ridge guarding his company command post when he was surprised by Chinese communist forces. He sounded the alarm and stayed in his position firing his automatic rifle and point-blank to check the assault. This gave his company time to consolidate their defenses. After being severely wounded by enemy fire, he refused assistance and continued firing upon the enemy until he was fatally wounded. His heroic action prevented the enemy from overrunning his company's position and gained time for evacuation of the wounded.



Charles George. A Cherokee from North Carolina, and Private First Class in Korea when he was killed on 30 November 1952. During battle, George threw himself upon a grenade and smothered it with his body. In doing so, he sacrificed his own life but saved the lives of his comrades. For this brave and selfless act, George was posthumously award the Medal of Honor in 1954



All recieved the MOH in the Korean War.



I havent even looked for USMC winners yet





My Grandfather once told me he had fought a Wolf, it didnt make it true....

Answer 9

Back in the 40's, people were very rascist (for the most part), and it could have to do with that. But I know I would give him a silver star!

Answer 10

Its a moot point now and things have changed since then also if he really did all those things i do not think he would have talked about much ,most combat vets do not ,it brings back to much pain.

Answer 11

He's living on half a lung? Ya I would have, but it was the 40's. A lot of people were racist.