SA-80 A2 (Mk II) VS M16?

Question

now, i hear both are Bullpups, and the SA-80 is shorter, more accurate, reliable, ambidextrous (M16 isnt) and can be fired from pretty much any position, whereas the M16 seems to be quite restrictive, and i know i must be missing something, because although the SA-80 A2 seems to put the M16 to shame..there must be A good reason the US use it...

considering it fails more, and cannot stand the temperatures and sand as much as the SA-80 A2 im just a little bit confused, can anyone tell me how the M16 is good?

(btw, i know the SA-80 is the "superior" weapon, so no BS ppl, i just want honest opinions/facts with no "my country is better than yours" BS)

Answer 1

Hi FreeRunnerOfManchester, thanks for clearing that up.



The M16 has been around for longer so some could argue it's more battle proven. To counter this the L85a2 has been involved in combat conditions continuously for the last 6 years so both are well versed.



Although the length of the M16 is often viewed as a flaw, when using the bayonet this is actually an advantage as it gives the soldier the extra 'reach' in hand to hand fighting. In addition, the bayonet attachment on the M16 is generally viewed as better than that on the L85 variants. The latter surrounds the muzzle, getting very hot when the weapon is fired and resulting in the tip of the bayonet having a tendency to break off.



The M16 is more versatile in design as it is modular, meaning that more or less any sighting system can be fitted along with torches, laser sights, UGL's etc. The L85a2 needs to be adapted to take different sighting systems other than the iron sights and the SUSAT. To fit any additional kit to the L85a2 the front handgrip needs to be replaced.



The L85a2 is bullpup, which is both an advantage and disadvantage. The main advantage the non-bullpup M16 has over a bullpup design like the L85a2 is its ability to be fired from both shoulders. This means that the soldier using it is able to aim his weapon around the left side of obstacles without exposing his body- a significant 'plus' when operating in built up areas.



Weight and balance is another advantage the M16 holds over the L85a2. It is extremely light and well balanced, although balance can be argued as just what you get used to.



The M16 is an extremely good weapon and one of the widely employed small arms in the world. When commenting on questions like this it's easy to forget that not too long ago the British Government were considering replacing the L85 system altogether in favour of an 'off the shelf' design like the G36. They chose a HK upgrade instead (probably because it was cheaper) which has turned an all but hopeless rifle (at least in reliability terms) into one of the most reliable weapons in the world.



The US use the M16 because they adopted it years before any other such 5.56mm weapon was available and since then have adopted it continuously to keep it up to date and comparable with the best rifles available. It is accurate, reliable (relatively), versatile, easy to operate and light.



To date, the trouble of replacing it has simply not been justified in the possible end results. Saying this, the US are currently looking for a new system to replace the M16 in the relatively near future.

Answer 2

i stole this answer !



I've used both the a1 and the current a2 version of the SA80 (L85a1/2) and trained alongside those using the M-16a2 in both temperate and desert conditions. The 'old' version of the SA80 deserved its reputation, a stoppage with every magazine or so could be expected even in temperate climates but handles like a different weapon after H&K worked their magic.

My experience with the M16 is that it suffers far more stoppages in the desert and is generally less accurate, although not by much. It is long and unweildly in comparison with the SA80. Even the LSW (the long barelled version of the SA80) is still shorter than the M16. The SA80 rifle is shorter than the M4 carbine family while maintaining a barrel length longer than the full length M16. On the other hand, the M16 is very light and can be fired from both shoulders, whereas the bullpup design of the SA80 limits it to a right shoulder fired weapon only. Some people claim that the M16 is better than the SA80 in OBUA (urban fighting) because of this ambidextruity, however, being so short the SA80 is easier to handle in confined spaces and is capable of automatic fire. Despite the fact that in British service the fully automatic capability of the SA80 would almost never be used in anything other than trench clearence drills, it is still a useful function. In design, each has its pro's and con's. The shortness of the SA80 is in most cases an advantage, but the length of the M16 makes it the more formidable when using the bayonet. While on the topic of the bayonet, a design flaw of the SA80's bayonet is that the handle surrounds the barrel and becomes hot after the weapon is fired and the tip of the bayonet can break off. Ultimately the latter problem is hardly an issue, although technically it contravenes the Geneva Convention.

In reliability, I can state from personal experience that the SA80a2 is more reliable than the M16 (I have NEVER had a stoppage with my a2 personal weapon and have seen many with the M16a2).

The most modern versions of the M16 are modular, which means that they can have various accessories bolted onto them dependant on the needs of various operations. Whereas the SA80 has the capability to have specialist equipment attached (Light Laser Module etc), it lacks the versatile modular nature of the M16.

To sum up, The SA80 is shorter, more accurate, has fully automatic capability and is more reliable. The M16 is longer, modular, and lighter. Usually the choice comes down to a personal one.

The old argument of the SLR vs. the SA80 is more of an debate over calibre than it is over the weapons systems themselves. I have little doubt the SLR is superior to the SA80a1 as a weapon system, but having not fired one I cannot compare it to the a2.

Answer 3

The SA-80 or L85 assault rifle was adopted for British army service in 1985, but in fact the design is much older than this. The 5.56mm SA80 was originally the 4.85mm IW which was first produced in 1973 as a prototype weapon for the NATO calibre trials. Adoption of the 5.56mm SS109 round saw the IW become the SA-80.



When it was due for adoption many British Gun writers voiced concerns about the design, but these seem to have been politely ignored.



It was during the Gulf War in 1991 that the mainstream press became aware of the malfunctions, jamming and reliability problems that the SA80 was prone to, including, apparently, a tendency to fire if dropped or struck on the muzzle.



In 1997 the SA80 was dropped from NATO's list of approved weapons because it was having difficulty firing NATO approved ammunition reliably.



Eventually the MOD admitted that something might be wrong. It is reported that the weapon has undergone 83 modifications over 18 years, but despite this in 2000 a contract of £80 million was paid to Hecker and Koch to put the army's SA80s right.

Answer 4

I would choose the M16 over the L82.

Here are the flaws of the M16

1. Cartridges a 5.56 (Less stopping power)

2. Unreliable

3. A bit too long

Pros:

1. Long range

2. Easy platform to use

3. Little to no recoil when fired

4.5.56 Round (Less recoil and more compact ammunition)

5. The number of attachments you can put on the M16

6. Not that hard to unjam

7. You can mount an M320 Grenade Launcher the M16 in every version

8. Cheap price of 1300.00 U.S Dollars

Answer 5

How is the sa-80 more "ambidexrous"? Try shooting it lefty.. put down that videogame controler and think. I can shoot an AR all day weak and strong side no issue due to the brass deflector also even your frigging SF uses an m16/m4 variant (c7-c8) rifles for a reason... they work and are a beter design. You say stop telli g me my info is wrong... well then stop stating things as facts and missinformation and actually ask a ******* question without adding yoyr bias hearsay bullshit lol.

Answer 6

Ex Brit Army here.



"now, i hear both are Bullpups"

wrong, M16 is conventional design, SA80 is bullpup



"and the SA-80 is shorter"

Because it's a bullpup



"more accurate, reliable" Arguable



"ambidextrous (M16 isnt)"

Wrong, M16 is ambidextrous, SA80 Isn't



"and can be fired from pretty much any position"

Can you tell me what position the M16 can't be fired from which the SA80 can be??







I think you either need to link to your sources or do more homework

Answer 7

How do you get ex back? How do you convince that what the two of you had together was special? This is your “get ex back” guide https://tr.im/BK6eP



First of all, you have to recognize that whatever happened, you were both at fault. If you cheated, he wasn’t giving you what you needed so you looked elsewhere. If he cheated, you were the one not giving what he needed. Yes, the cheater is morally culpable for the cheating. The moral responsibility does not lie with the person who was cheated upon. But the fault lies in both party’s laps.



Given that, it is important to forgive and forget. True forgiveness means that you let go of all of the anger related to the incident. You never bring it up again. You never let it cloud your relationship. If you cannot do this, you won’t get ex back for any period of time.



If you were the person at fault, apologize – and mean it. Too many times, after people say “I’m sorry,” there’s an “Oops I did it again,” moment. You’re not Britney Spears. It’s not cute. When you say you are sorry, you have to commit to changing. Otherwise, you don’t mean it and you won’t get ex back.



Be prepared to chase him/her a little bit. This doesn’t mean sending him/her hundreds of text messages or stalking him/her, but you have got to show him/her that you are still interested if you want to get ex back. You can’t expect him/her to come running back just because you have sent out some modest signals that you are ready to re-start the relationship. Put your ego in check and put your heart on the line.



You may have to settle for something less than you wanted. It may be that he is only ready to be friends when you want a full fledged boyfriend. It may take time to rebuild the trust. If this is the case, you need to give him/her the space he needs to get to know you again. Accept that you have to take what he is offering right now if you want to eventually get guy back.



Finally, you have to know when to give up on the get guy back strategy. Sometimes, you just have to move on. If your boyfriend is unable to forgive you, you are in a position where the best thing you can do is move on and enter into new relationships. While this will break your heart right now, it may be the best thing that could have happened to you. Whatever went wrong in this relationship, your soul mate is still out there. Get ex back may stop

Answer 8

Have you lost your ex, and are now asking for help on "how to get my ex back when he's moved on'? Don't bother moping, because what you have lost does not mean you have lost it forever. Here are some quick and simple tips for learning how to get your ex back even if he has moved on to another woman and no longer appears to be interested in associating with you. Learn here https://tr.im/q3oea



1 - One of the most advantageous things that you can do is simply to be his friend. Make a really good friend to him, showing him that you understand him and that you can be around him without creating any drama. Show him that you can joke around with him and have a healthy friendship with him. When the drama and stress of the relationship and breakup have subsided, he may realize that he wants you again.



2 - The first step to getting the man of your dreams back is finding a way to convince him that he still wants you. Unless he really, really does not want anything to do with you, then there are a number of options that you can employ from this point on.



3 - When you communicate with your ex boyfriend, be sweet and kind to him but don't be afraid to have a little bit of attitude. You are going to want him to want you, but you're also going to want to give him the feeling that he cannot have you just yet. While playing games is not the best way to go, you do not want give an air of hard to get, making him more interested in the process.



4 - You should be playing a little bit hard to get, but you also want to make sure that he knows you are available. You shouldn't completely rule out the concept of flirting and hanging out with friends, because drumming up a little bit of jealousy never hurt anyone - But it is important that you play it safe because if he doesn't think you are available, he probably will not find the motivation to pursue you.



5 - Avoid acting desperate at all costs. If you act desperate, your ex boyfriend will under estimate you. You are going to want to play things cool, letting him know that you are okay with everything that has happened, and that you are willing to move on. If you act desperate, things won't work out the way you are intending them to, so avoid doing this at all costs.

Answer 9

"now, i hear both are Bullpups"



After reading your first sentence. I can tell you dont know a single thing about firearms. Why dont you go look up the weapons you are talking about and then maybe go look up the definition of the term bullpup, because the M16 is not one.

Answer 10

L85 Bayonet

Answer 11

doesn't the SAS favour the M16 over the SA80?

Answer 12

I was going to answer but your getting a bit surly.