Question:
Why is it wrong to require an atheist to be in a formation that is praying? (ex: prayers before a mission)?
anonymous
2010-01-04 06:56:50 UTC
Military officials must fully accommodate the rights of service members to believe or not to believe in any particular religious doctrine (or even a Deity).

Military officials must ensure that service members are neither punished for their beliefs nor subjected to unwanted proselytizing or evangelizing from military chaplains or senior officers and noncommissioned officers, even if the proselytizing or evangelizing is intended as a good-faith effort to salvage the spiritual health of the service members.

Military officials may not subject members of the armed forces to involuntary worship or prayers, particularly when the full power of the government backed by punitive action under the UCMJ* is employed to command their presence and participation. USMCA

Except when good order and military discipline are threatened, military officials may not discriminate against any particular religious sect or denomination, especially based upon the belief system of the sect or denomination. USMCA
Nine answers:
gugliamo00
2010-01-04 07:47:40 UTC
The wording of your question, "Why is it wrong," leads me to infer that you think atheists and agnostics should be include in group prayers.



I used to tell my guys before their first mission that if they were of a mind to pray, that "now would be as good a good time as any," and if they didn't know how to pray and wanted to learn, I'd set them up with the Chaplain after we got back. I had a few takers... usually when we got back. We didn't do the group thing because, when we went out our groups were pretty small.



Have you ever heard that there's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole? It's pretty true. It's like here in the Veterans Home. There are guys who've never gone to church. Over the years they've developed a belief system that seems to work for them, but they've never adopted a formalize religion. Then one day they wake up to the fact that the days ahead are getting short, and suddenly they start going to the services here on campus... which is pretty non-denominational. Some head into town and to an even more formalized religion.



I'm not particularly religious. I'm one of those with the belief system that works for me. I absolutely detest ramming any religion down somebody's throat. But, a group prayer, if it bolsters the morale of the troops, even if they choose not to participate (some so choose), what the heck right does anybody think they have to denigrate it? Maybe the guys who don't actually pray get some comfort from the camaraderie. Maybe they pick up some of the calm prayer seems to have for those who do it. Maybe some join the group because they did it before and then made it back... kind of a lucky charm. Nobody's forced to participate.



However, if my inference is incorrect, and you think agnostics and atheists are being somehow religiously harassed, then I'm sorry to have to inform you, sir, that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'd surmise that you're a pontificating philosopher who's never seen the military... except maybe in the movies or on TV. You can't possibly have even the foggiest notion what it's like to be shot at, to see your buddy blown away buy a hail of bullets, a mortar or a landmine or IED. You've certainly never held your dying buddy in your arms and have him almost break your hand as he crushes it in pain... and there's not a blasted thing you can do to stop it. You can't ever have had to take a life. And, if Until you've been there and done that, kindly keep your philosophizing to the religion or philosophy sections where nobody else knows what they're talking about either... and where they too are all absolutely convinced that they do.



I have cousin who sent me a photo a few year ago. It was when there was that big push to get crosses removed from all government property because the atheists and agnostics felt they were being religiously harassed. It was a picture of Arlington National Cemetery.



ADDENDUM



If it is as you state, then I apologize. However, from your statement, I get an inkling that there might be something else going on besides infringement of your religious rights (a' la' Michael Newdow). Be that as it may, I would contend that your OIC or whoever required your participation was out of line. You owe it to your beliefs to sit down with a JAG officer and find out:



(1) If there's a UCMJ Article (I'm not certain there is one in this case) or one in your branch's Regs that refers to freedom of the personnel in that branch to practice their beliefs... find out if the order is, indeed, unlawful... and if it is, get Article, Section, Subsection, Paragraph, and then



(2) learn the proper way to decline to obey an unlawful order in your branch.



Then, with the courage of your convictions, don't do anything you're not required to do. Be careful. Religious beliefs or lack thereof only apply to matters of religion. For example, since you're atheist, you might expect to stand duty on religious holidays because the guys who believe in them also have the right to practice their beliefs.



And you can be assured that people will be looking for you to slip up... even the slightest bit... especially that OIC that gave you the hard time and who you had to disobey. You, of course, have the right to "find religion." But you can't flip-flop. If, for example, you get caught reading the Bible, you also better have close at hand some other religious textbooks to prove you're doing research... in the off chance you might one day find some kind of Deity in which you could believe.
anonymous
2016-05-26 07:14:14 UTC
Every single prayer I have ever prayed has been answered. Mind you, "No" is still an answer. People seem to forget that. How do I know that even the "No" answers were still answers? Because I haven't ever regretted not getting a Yes on those prayers. When I look back, I realize that a "No" was always the better answer. There have also been a few "No"s that I ignored. That never turned out well. There have also been quite a few "Yes"es, one that I think God might have done just to show me that I don't always want a "yes" (and, again, looking back I appreciate that he showed me that). The problem is, if you believe prayer works then every prayer is answered (I do, so I believe every prayer I have is answered, though I freely admit it could just be my own perception of events). If you don't believe prayer works, no answer will be enough (because the answer will either not be what the person wants or they wont recognize the answer as being divine rather than mundane). For example, say I pray for rain and it rains. If that an answer to prayer or a coincidence? If I believe, then it is an answer. If I don't, it is a coincidence. If it doesn't rain and I believe, that is still an answer. If it doesn't rain and I don't believe, then that is an affirmative of my (lack of) beliefs. Edit: It is interesting that most who says they have answered prayers get a lot of negative votes while people who say that they haven't had prayers answered get positive votes. Edit: No is a perfectly acceptable answer. If a parent always said yes to their child, that is called spoiling. Prayer is for communicating with God, not for getting things done for you.
Blue Haired Old Lady
2010-01-04 07:02:43 UTC
Because military officials must ensure that service members are neither punished for their beliefs nor subjected to unwanted proselytizing or evangelizing from military chaplains or senior officers and noncommissioned officers, even if the proselytizing or evangelizing is intended as a good-faith effort to salvage the spiritual health of the service members.



Religious beliefs are personal and requiring a non-believer to be in a formation that is praying is subjecting them to unwanted religious activities.



God isn't real and it is a waste of time to pray.
lconnor65
2010-01-04 07:05:19 UTC
As a atheist in the service I never had many issues. During a group prayer (non formation) I asked to be excused from it. If we are in a ceremony I just bow my head and daydream. It isn't a big deal. I do it out of respect for those who believe.
anonymous
2010-01-04 08:24:24 UTC
suck it up and do it. it is out of respect for your mates and the whole process. no one said you had to change your religion or pray on the inside. do it because sometimes in life you have to do things you don't want to do that are not worth making a big deal of. Just like an athiest being invited to someones house for dinner and they all pray and hold hands.. what are you going to do, stand up and leave until they are finished? no, you go along with it for respect. Same thing when you go a baptism and you are not catholic or christian.. you are there because you were invited and you can just observe. no one said you had to convert.
anonymous
2010-01-04 07:02:19 UTC
Because there is a little thing called the constitution which all soldiers are sworn to protect and defend which spells out in the first amendment that church and state should be separate.



Why do you believe atheists should be require to be in prayer formation, being as it would be a complete waste of time for them and subject them to unneeded attempts at proselytizing ? Would you require all soldiers to be present for say, a Satanist prayer, or a Wiccan prayer, even if such would be offensive to Christians? Why should Christians have special rights in the military?
MikeGolf
2010-01-04 07:18:46 UTC
Because athiests are not allowed to force their beliefs on everybody else in the military.



If you do not want to pray - just remain silent and allow other people to act on their beliefs. That is all that is being asked of you.



IMO - you need to grow up.
2010, 2 years to go
2010-01-04 07:01:11 UTC
I am not really religious, but looked at it as a gathiering of my mates and showing that we are a group and support each other. I feel that is important if you are going where death is waiting. You have to be a real wiener to complain about that.
Mrsjvb
2010-01-04 08:05:56 UTC
the formation is mandatory. what you do during that formation( as long as you do not break it) is up to you.


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