Question:
Victoria Cross for being black?
anonymous
2007-07-14 10:16:42 UTC
Johnson Beharry,the latest recipient of the VC does not deserve the medal.
His convoy was ambushed,he panicked,reversed,crashed ,injured himself.His commander was injured,Beharry correctly pulled him into the vehicle.Beharrys convoy was also ambushed on another occasion.
The point here,Beharrys behaviour was not above and beyond the call of duty.His actions(reversing vehicle during ambush)was inconsistant with procedure(to advance through ambush to avoid obstructing following vehicles).No other actions resulted in the diminishing of enemy forces or equipment.the action of hauling his commander through the hatch was probably brave but no better than any other rescues taking place on a daily basis in Iraq and Afghan theatres.

My question here,in no way intends to show that Beharry is any other than a decent and capable soldier serving our country abroad.
What I do suggest,the award was political and it diminishes the status of all former and worthy recipients.
22 answers:
B.o.B
2007-07-15 06:52:24 UTC
Disgraceful. I have friends who've done two Telics and taken rounds to the body (luckily the armour held out).

I've seen photos of them in action- and they along with the other soldiers are heroes- not this dosy git who pulled a fire-extinguisher handle, smashed his motor and copped a round to the helmet. That's just par for the course.



Very unimpressed with this 'bravery'.

My Grandad only got a DS for what he did in Belgium.

Why should this idiot get a VC?



Taggart answers the question superlatively- it is the commander who gives the recommendation. NO doubt some snotty nosed git wit PC drilled into them from years of buggery at Harrow. I hated these shites then and I hate them more now.

For every Beharry- therre is at least 10 unsung heroic Northerner squaddies getting their **** shot off and we never hear about them because they are less PR attractive- Scousers and Manckies less photogenic than Johnny Foreigner in PC Blair-tannia. I think the only part missing from the prize catch was if Beharry was a Muslim.

"He's English too- first Black Muslim VC winner."

God- can you imagine the prolefeed?



I still remember what we called Beharry's kind in the services and it weren't pretty.

What a Walt.
taggart747
2007-07-15 15:02:34 UTC
Perhaps it is not exceptionally above and beyond the call of duty, but the person who determines the level at which a medal should be awarded has the final say in whether the soldier in question (Beharry in this instance) deserved it. You obviously don't think he did, and I'm not sure if you are/were an active duty soldier in Iraq, but perhaps what he achieved did really meet the criteria in the eyes of the commanders. Maybe there was important information to be passed on, and Beharry ensured that it happened. As for diminishing the status of former and worthy receipents, so long Beharry doesn't boast about it, I'm sure he's worthy enough to receive the medal. I know there are many other soldiers out there doing the same, even more, but not every soldier's heroic feats are rewarded, just those who are seen by the commanders.
Apollonia
2007-07-14 17:47:20 UTC
You are wrong, wrong, wrong! IF you have the intelligence to read and understand the citation then you should know that he DID NOT reverse, he drove FORWARD through the ambush area and FORWARD through a barricade.



Were you there? Did you witness Beharry's actions? The citation was written from witness statements and serving military personnel have nothing but respect for this young man.

What do you do with your time? No, really, I'd like to know if you have done anything honourable or good with your life or if you just slate others because they can do what you cannot.
Sakr al Amn
2007-07-14 18:21:00 UTC
You are the worst form of commentator on these sorts of sites. You clearly have never served or if you have not in a combat zone. You have no right to comment on the citation of the soldier in question. The young man displayed uncommon valour and frankly your inference that the award of any gallantry decoration is done out of political correctness frankly insults the likes of Honorary Lieutenant Pun and other surviving VC holders and those that received the award posthumously. Your opinions are so misinformed that they beggar belief.
anonymous
2007-07-15 14:45:38 UTC
OK Mr Nazi, when did you last rescue some of your comrades under heavy fire whilst severely injured?



BTW your icon is an insult to the memories of the brave men and women who died in WWII fighting to keep the Nazis OUT of this country. Including my dad.



EDIT: The Germans never planned to invade England? OH yeah - so what was the Battle of Britain fought for then?
budding author
2007-07-14 19:17:31 UTC
I must admit your question had me puzzled at first glance!Also your answers,( so far)!

Your response to these answers are far from pleasing, so far!

I was an active army man UK (and on active service) so we can delete that from your list of objections in your responses , cant we?

I was attached to many folk from the UK black , white, you name it, we were all there together!

No one I know was given the VC, but if anyone had I would have been very proud of the fact, had they been black white or pink!!!

The last thing that would have crossed my mind would have been 'what colour was this feller'?

The thing that really amazes is that you think that the VC would be awarded to some one based on his colour?

Very sad!!
robert2011@sbcglobal.net
2007-07-14 17:26:57 UTC
Yeah well there seems to be a lot of diminishing of status going on lately.

Get use to it.
conranger1
2007-07-14 20:07:50 UTC
Looking at your avatar you obviously have a racial issue.



The man did his job and got his reward, the recommendation is made by the British military and not politicians.



Where have you the evidence he panicked??



And, if the way forward, was blocked, he would have to reverse back, then go forward, to get around the obstruction.



You were not there, so you really do not deserve to comment and you are really ignorant on the facts of British Military History.
anonymous
2007-07-14 21:23:59 UTC
Unless you were there when it happened, then you have no right to dismiss it so lightly.

I take it that you have served in the military?

I too also served and was wounded twice. I believe I have the right to answer this question and say you are wrong.

My belief, my view, my opinion.
anonymous
2007-07-14 17:30:36 UTC
You are a very hefty fellow to be taunting people that way!

Sixteen and a half stone? Isn't that like 230lbs?
anonymous
2007-07-14 18:12:05 UTC
well for a change I KNOW THE FACTS..........he was brave..no doubt

but many more blokes before were more deserving and never recieved that award... i remember my dad and two other blokes held out against a battalion in burma by throwing beer bottles at them......shame they got pissed up the night before...it was a bit political m8 but he probably deserved it along with others that aint
anonymous
2007-07-14 17:58:40 UTC
Shakespeare

Henry V, Act 4, Scene 3



If we are mark'd to die, we are enow

To do our country loss; and if to live,

The fewer men, the greater share of honour.

God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.

By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,

Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;

It yearns me not if men my garments wear;

Such outward things dwell not in my desires:

But if it be a sin to covet honour,

I am the most offending soul alive.

No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England:

God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour

As one man more, methinks, would share from me

For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!

Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,

That he which hath no stomach to this fight,

Let him depart; his passport shall be made

And crowns for convoy put into his purse:

We would not die in that man's company

That fears his fellowship to die with us.

This day is called the feast of Crispian:

He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,

Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,

And rouse him at the name of Crispian.



He that shall live this day, and see old age,

Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,

And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'

Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.

And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'

Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,

But he'll remember with advantages

What feats he did that day: then shall our names.

Familiar in his mouth as household words

Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,

Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,

Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.

This story shall the good man teach his son;

And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,

From this day to the ending of the world,

But we in it shall be remember'd;

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;

For he to-day that sheds his blood with me

Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,

This day shall gentle his condition:*

And gentlemen in England now a-bed

Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,

And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks

That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
anonymous
2007-07-14 17:35:56 UTC
Johnson Beharry V.C. is a hero, they do not give medals to soldiers who panic and crash military vehicles
anonymous
2007-07-14 17:22:06 UTC
Forgive if I think that someone who has a swastika in their avatar is somewhat biased on questions relating to race.



Ok, dont forgive me. And Il leave it to people without stupid racist iconography to ask the questions.



Gosh, I just came back to check the answers, and judging by all your snobby edits, you are a pretty lonely person. Sad really. Plus-this isn't a discussion board.
TheTruthHurts
2007-07-14 17:27:22 UTC
So you immediately jump to the conclusion that it was due to race?
anonymous
2007-07-14 17:27:12 UTC
Your avatar disqualifies you from this discussion. Too many British soldiers died to rid the world of what you stand for.



End of discussion.
Barry auh2o
2007-07-14 17:30:45 UTC
you sure you're not talking about John Kerry??
srracvuee
2007-07-14 17:34:54 UTC
you jumped right in the sh t pal with that avatar emblem so i'm not interested in what you have to say about this man
tres_leches_33
2007-07-15 04:57:26 UTC
2 POINTS!!!!!!!
anonymous
2007-07-14 17:48:05 UTC
How do you know - were you there with him?

If not, shut up.
anonymous
2007-07-14 17:20:29 UTC
Are you a Nazi?



nyy2135525@yahoo.com
anonymous
2007-07-14 17:34:36 UTC
By even hinting that this man does not deserve the Victoria Cross you are besmirching the reputations and memories of all other recipients of the award. The VC is this country's highest military honour and should not be devalued in the underhanded way you are trying to do in pursuit of your racist agenda.



For those who are not familiar with Lance Corporal Beharry's actions read the citation:



Full citation reads:



“ Private Beharry carried out two individual acts of great heroism by which he saved the lives of his comrades. Both were in direct face of the enemy, under intense fire, at great personal risk to himself (one leading to him sustaining very serious injuries). His valour is worthy of the highest recognition.

In the early hours of May 1 2004 Beharry's company was ordered to replenish an isolated coalition forces outpost located in the centre of the troubled city of Al Amarah. He was the driver of a platoon commander's warrior armoured fighting vehicle. His platoon was the company's reserve force and was placed on immediate notice to move.



As the main elements of his company were moving into the city to carry out the replenishment, they were re-tasked to fight through a series of enemy ambushes in order to extract a foot patrol that had become pinned down under sustained small arms and heavy machine gun fire and improvised explosive device and rocket-propelled grenade attack. Beharry's platoon was tasked over the radio to come to the assistance of the remainder of the company, who were attempting to extract the isolated foot patrol.



As his platoon passed a roundabout, en route to the pinned-down patrol, they became aware that the road to the front was empty of all civilians and traffic - an indicator of a potential ambush ahead. The platoon commander ordered the vehicle to halt, so that he could assess the situation. The vehicle was then immediately hit by multiple rocket-propelled grenades.



Eyewitnesses report that the vehicle was engulfed in a number of violent explosions, which physically rocked the 30-tonne warrior. As a result of this ferocious initial volley of fire, both the platoon commander and the vehicle's gunner were incapacitated by concussion and other wounds, and a number of the soldiers in the rear of the vehicle were also wounded.



Due to damage sustained in the blast to the vehicle's radio systems, Beharry had no means of communication with either his turret crew or any of the other warrior vehicles deployed around him. He did not know if his commander or crewmen were still alive, or how serious their injuries may be.



In this confusing and dangerous situation, on his own initiative, he closed his driver's hatch and moved forward through the ambush position to try to establish some form of communications, halting just short of a barricade placed across the road. The vehicle was hit again by sustained rocket-propelled grenade attack from insurgent fighters in the alleyways and on rooftops around his vehicle.



Further damage to the warrior from these explosions caused it to catch fire and fill rapidly with thick, noxious smoke. Beharry opened up his armoured hatch cover to clear his view and orientate himself to the situation. He still had no radio communications and was now acting on his own initiative, as the lead vehicle of a six warrior convoy in an enemy-controlled area of the city at night.



He assessed that his best course of action to save the lives of his crew was to push through, out of the ambush. He drove his warrior directly through the barricade, not knowing if there were mines or improvised explosive devices placed there to destroy his vehicle. By doing this he was able to lead the remaining five warriors behind him towards safety.



As the smoke in his driver's tunnel cleared, he was just able to make out the shape of another rocket-propelled grenade in flight heading directly towards him. He pulled the heavy armoured hatch down with one hand, whilst still controlling his vehicle with the other. However, the overpressure from the explosion of the rocket wrenched the hatch out of his grip, and the flames and force of the blast passed directly over him, down the driver's tunnel, further wounding the semi-conscious gunner in the turret.



The impact of this rocket destroyed Beharry's armoured periscope, so he was forced to drive the vehicle through the remainder of the ambushed route, some 1500m long, with his hatch opened up and his head exposed to enemy fire, all the time with no communications with any other vehicle. During this long surge through the ambushes the vehicle was again struck by rocket-propelled grenades and small arms fire.



While his head remained out of the hatch, to enable him to see the route ahead, he was directly exposed to much of this fire, and was himself hit by a 7.62mm bullet, which penetrated his helmet and remained lodged on its inner surface. Despite this harrowing weight of incoming fire Beharry continued to push through the extended ambush, still leading his platoon until he broke clean.



He then visually identified another warrior from his company and followed it through the streets of Al Amarah to the outside of the Cimic House outpost, which was receiving small arms fire from the surrounding area. Once he had brought his vehicle to a halt outside, without thought for his own personal safety, he climbed onto the turret of the still-burning vehicle and, seemingly oblivious to the incoming enemy small arms fire, manhandled his wounded platoon commander out of the turret, off the vehicle and to the safety of a nearby warrior.



He then returned once again to his vehicle and again mounted the exposed turret to lift out the vehicle's gunner and move him to a position of safety. Exposing himself yet again to enemy fire he returned to the rear of the burning vehicle to lead the disorientated and shocked dismounts and casualties to safety.



Remounting his burning vehicle for the third time, he drove it through a complex chicane and into the security of the defended perimeter of the outpost, thus denying it to the enemy.



Only at this stage did Beharry pull the fire extinguisher handles, immobilising the engine of the vehicle, dismounted and then moved himself into the relative safety of the back of another warrior. Once inside Beharry collapsed from the sheer physical and mental exhaustion of his efforts and was subsequently himself evacuated.



Having returned to duty following medical treatment, on June 11 2004 Beharry's warrior was part of a quick reaction force tasked to attempt to cut off a mortar team that had attacked a coalition force base in Al Amarah. As the lead vehicle of the platoon he was moving rapidly through the dark city streets towards the suspected firing point, when his vehicle was ambushed by the enemy from a series of rooftop positions.



During this initial heavy weight of enemy fire, a rocket-propelled grenade detonated on the vehicle's frontal armour, just six inches [15cm] from Beharry's head, resulting in a serious head injury. Other rockets struck the turret and sides of the vehicle, incapacitating his commander and injuring several of the crew.



With the blood from his head injury obscuring his vision, Beharry managed to continue to control his vehicle, and forcefully reversed the warrior out of the ambush area. The vehicle continued to move until it struck the wall of a nearby building and came to rest. Beharry then lost consciousness as a result of his wounds.



By moving the vehicle out of the enemy's chosen killing area he enabled other warrior crews to be able to extract his crew from his vehicle, with a greatly reduced risk from incoming fire.



Despite receiving a serious head injury, which later saw him being listed as very seriously injured and in a coma for some time, his level-headed actions in the face of heavy and accurate enemy fire at short range again almost certainly saved the lives of his crew and provided the conditions for their safe evacuation to medical treatment.



Beharry displayed repeated extreme gallantry and unquestioned valour, despite intense direct attacks, personal injury and damage to his vehicle in the face of relentless enemy action.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Beharry


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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